Who Will Win 2008

The question is: "Who will win the Presidential Election of 2008 ?"


For the first time picking the winning candidate for the United States national election for president presents a quandry.

For sure one candidate, McCain, and possibly two, Obama also, were not born in any part of the country.
Since the Panama Canal Zone was under the administrative control of the U.S. and since his father was in the active military at the time of his birth, John McCain is considered a natural born U.S. citizen. This would be true for many Americans born abroad to parents in business, the diplomatic corps or on active military duty, etc.. McCain's citizenship status and birth location are therefore known. Although no evidence of a birth certificate has surfaced.

Barack Obama's birth presents a different problem, possibly. His mother was an American citizen at the time she married his father, a natural citizen of Kenya, in Hawaii. But now there are conflicting reports about the time Barack was born, the location or country of his birth and even the date.

Much of this conflict is the result of a number of factors.

First of all his reported birth time was changed from morning to evening on his own web site.

Philip J. Berg, an attorney and self-professed Hillary Clinton supporter has evidence(?) stating that Obama was born in Kenya and then a week later flown back to Hawaii where a certificate of live birth was filed (view certificate). Berg claims the birth record initially posted on the Obama campaign website is a forgery based on his half-sister's certificate. Berg also noted that Obama would have lost any American citizenship status he had when he moved to Indonesia with his mother and was adopted by his step-father.
Berg believes the Republican party has even more evidence and will use it to discredit Obama after he receives the Democratic nomination. Berg said journalist Wayne Madsen published an article about a GOP research team that was sent to Kenya and has located a certificate registering the birth of a boy named "Barack Obama, Jr." to his father, a Kenyan citizen and his mother, a U.S. citizen.

As far as I am concerned Obama's citizenship status is not at question. His mother was an American citizen at the time of his birth, therefore he has the right to claim American citizenship. But possibly not legally. My difficulty is the date and location. These two factors are needed to calculate any astrological chart, as well as the time. So if he was not born in a hospital or somewhere in Honolulu, Hawaii but somewhere in Kenya that makes a big difference in the chart cast. Of course if the date is different as well then everything changes.

I do find it a bit strange that the "Certificate of Live Birth" posted on his website does not name a hospital or attending physician. And the certificate number has been blacked out.
I know my "Birth Certificate" does show those things as well as being hand written on a standard Birth Certificate form from the state of my birth.

Given the above information and until something more substantial surfaces I will go with the information provided by Obama's website. Even though the chart cast shows a Mercury/Neptune square for Barack Obama.

Note: While there are questions regarding Barack Obama's birth information there is some evidence astrologically that confirms the birth data. Michelle LaVaughn Obama nee Robinson, his wife, was born on January 17, 1964 in Chicago, Illinois. That means her Sun is at approximately 26° 30' Capricorn. Based on Barack's SBT chart his natal Saturn is at 25° Capricorn in the 1st house and his Part of Marriage is 24° Capricorn, also in the 1st house.

The birth data for the two main contenders is below.

Barack Hussein Obama Jr.

DOB Aug 04, 1961 07:24 PM AHT

Somewhere in Honolulu, Hawaii

21 N 18' 02"

157 W 47' 31"

Location data for Barack Obama is based on Honolulu center city co-ordinates only.

John McCain

DOB August 29, 1936 5 AM ~ 1 PM EST (According to his mother).Best guess 8AM ~ 9AM

U.S. Naval Hospital

Panama Canal Zone, Panama

08 N 58' 15"

79 W 33' 24"

Precise location data is used for John McCain

This results in the following:


Physical Birth Time(PBT) ASC = 18 Aquarius 06' 04" [Chart]

Spiritual Birth Time(SBT) ASC = 12 Carpricorn 53' 47" [Chart]


Physical Birth Time(PBT) ASC = 18 Libra 19' [Chart] Based on 9:00 AM

Spiritual Birth Time(SBT) ASC = 23 Libra 53' 43" [Chart]

Since I deal in accuracies of 4 minutes of arc or less for secondary progressions it is necessary to have a precise location for the birth. That is why I have included, if possible, the hospital.

The verifying process has previously been done with both charts.

I always use Placidus houses.

Certainly as auspicious an occasion as being elected to the Presidency of the United States will require an activation of the tenth house.

Applicable aspects are highlighted in red.

This year the election is on the 4th of November 2008. I used 11:59 PM EST for the progressions, because this corresponds to the close of the polls in California at midnight EST.

What is happening in Obama's chart in the time frame of this year's election? Let's see.

*Note: The aspects to the nodes shown below are based on the true node. If the mean node is used no nodal aspects are formed.

1. Progressed Venus at 27° Leo 15' 04" and 13° 08' 31" North is conjunct natal N.Node Rx at 27° Leo 18' 24" and 12° 24' 34" North. This is an applying aspect at 03' 20".

2. Progressed Jupiter Rx at 27° Capricorn 19' 33" and 21° 21' 25" South is quinqunx natal N.Node Rx at 27° Leo 18' 24" and 12° 24' 34" North. While progressed Jupiter is retrograde this would seem to be an applying aspect at 01' 09" but by progression Jupiter stations(Feb 7, 2011) at 27° Capricorn 19' 03" before the aspect becomes exact.

3. Progressed Saturn Rx at 23° Capricorn 16' 11" and 21° 40' 07" South is contra-parallel natal Venus at 01° Cancer 41' 04" and 21° 38' 00" North. Since progressed Saturn is retrograde this appears to be an applying aspect at 02' 07" but by progression Saturn stations(April 10,2015) at 23° Capricorn 14' 09" and 21° 40' 50" South before the aspect becomes exact.

4. Progressed Sun at 28° Virgo 08' 53" and 00° 44' 11" North is semi-sextile progressed Uranus at 28° Leo 08' 28" and 12° 47' 00" North. This is a seperating aspect at 00' 25".

5. Progressed Pluto at 08° Virgo 33' 43" and 19° 59' 46" North is sextile natal Neptune at 08° Scorpio 36' 18" and 12° 41' 46" South. This is an applying aspect at 02' 35".

6. Progressed Venus at 27° Leo 15' 04" and 13° 08' 35" North is quinqunx progressed Jupiter Rx at 27° Capricorn 19' 33" and 21° 21' 25" South. This aspect is a bit wide at 04' 29" and it is mutually applying until Jupiter stations.

1a. On Nov 4, 2008 progressed Venus, MC ruler is conjunt natal N.Node Rx in Leo in the 8th house. Is this an aspect of fate? It deals with resources and the public. I think this aspect sets a tone for Barack Obama and his involvement in this election. Finances and resources play a big role in the run for president.

2a. On Nov 4, 2008 progressed Jupiter Rx in the first, ruler 9th and 12 houses is quincunx natal N.Node in Leo in the 8th house. Once again there is a tie in to the 8th.

3a. On Nov 4, 2008 progressed Saturn, his ASC(self) ruler and natural ruler 10th(outer world), forms a contra-parallel to natal Venus, his MC(outer world) ruler and natural ruler 7th(other people). Contra-parallels are not like longitude oppositions. Instead this aspect brings the inner and outer experience together. This clearly indicates an activation of the MC by both his natal ruler, Venus, and the natural ruler, Saturn.

4a. On Nov 4, 2008 progressed Sun at 28° Virgo 08' 51", his 8th(other resources) ruler and natural ruler 5th(creativity) form a near exact semi-sextile to progressed Uranus, his 2nd ruler(needs) and natural ruler 11th(career resources), at 28° Leo 08' 28". Now some think a semi-sextile is like a weak sextile. I think it is much more like a hard aspect, similar to the quinqunx. This happens to be a 2nd house type of semi-sextile(i.e. 1st to 2nd) so it might indicate needs fulfilled, but at a price.

5a. By August 2008 it became clear that Hilary Clinton's presidential bid was over. Interestingly Obama's progressed Pluto, in his 8th its natural house, came into orb 4' and was sextile to his natal Neptune at 8° Scorpio 36' 18", in his 10th, by the middle of August. This aspect is still valid at election time when progressed Pluto at 8° Virgo 33' 43" maintains the sextile. And it grows closer to exact as time passes. At the end of July progressed Venus was conjunct progressed N.Node. Is this a precursor of things to come?

6a. On Nov 4, 2008 progressed Venus, his MC ruler forms a wide(4' 31") quinqunx to the progressed Jupiter, natally and progressed in the first house. Because it is a fair bit out of orb I'm not sure this aspect should be used for the election. Progressed and natal Jupiter are retrograde, so the planets are mutually applying to the aspect and the aspect becomes exact on Nov 27, 2008. This is an 8th house quinqunx(i.e. 1st to 8th). Again the planets and aspects point towards achieving the goal(MC). But at what price?

What do you think about the above data? There are aspects involving the natal MC, through rulership and naturally and the natal planet in 10th, Neptune, is being activated as well. There is also a lot of activity in areas concerning resources by planet, houses and aspects. What are the debts incured and how are they to be repaid?

What is happening in McCain's chart in the time frame of this year's election? Let's see.

1. Progressed MC at 05° Libra 08' 37" and 02° 02' 39" South is 195°(165°) to natal Saturn at 20° Pisces 08' 32" and 06° 00' 24" South. At 9AM EST this aspect is applying at 00'02". By midnight EST it is seperating at 00' 05".

2. Progressed Sun at 17° Scorpio 12' 09" and 16° 58' 33" South is semi-square natal Mercury at 02° Libra 16' 54" and 02° 16' 09" South. This aspect is a wide at 04'45" and applying.

3. Progressed Pluto Rx at 28° Cancer 44' 17" and 22° 49' 15" North is parallel natal Pluto at 28° Cancer 00' 27" and 22° 49' 39" North. This aspect is applying at 00'24".

4. Progressed Mercury at 12° Scorpio 01' 09" and 14° 49' 44" South is semi-square progressed Mars at 27° Virgo 05' 59" and 23° 12' 03" South. This aspect is wide at 04' 50" and applying.

1a. On Nov 4, 2008 the progressed MC(outer world) is in an exact, yet minor 165° aspect, to natal Saturn. If this was a major aspect and it may well be, I would say this is an absolute clincher for John McCain. Another example of this aspect is found in the chart for the U.S.A. On December 7th, 1941 America's progressed Moon, at 15° Pisces 34' 54" and 09° 15' 59" South, formed an exact 195°(165°) aspect to the progressed Mars at 00° Libra 34' 54" and 01° 44' 35" North. This is based on the SBT chart for the U.S.A. found elsewhere on this site.
Now 195°(165°) is an unusual aspect. Just what does it mean?
In the Dec-Jan 97/98 issue of the Mountain Astrologer, Noel Tyl, wrote an interesting article about minor aspects. That is 15°, 75°, 105°, 165°, 195°, 255°, 285° and 345°. The 15°, 75° and 105° aspect were not mentioned yet they are of the same 24th harmonic family. The quincunx, 150°, is also part of this harmonic and often no longer considered minor. These aspects deal largely with adjustment and the disruption or upheaval of one's life when working to intigrate the symbols involved. As I remember, Mr. Tyl described these aspects as "I just had to do it". Does John McCain just have to integrate his MC with its natural ruler?

2a. On Nov 4, 2008 the progressed Sun(life purpose) and ruler of the 11th is semi-square(45°) to natal Mercury in the 12th and ruler 9th and 12th. This aspect is wide of the 4' orb normally used. It becomes exact on December 3, 2008, one month after the election. I include the aspect in the analysis because Mercury is in and ruling the 12th and nothing is a bigger institution than the U.S. government. Of course the government itself is a 9th house affair.

3a. On Nov 4, 2008 progressed Pluto at 22° 49' 15" North, his 2nd ruler, is parallel natal Pluto at 22° 49' 39" North, in the natal tenth and near conjunct the MC at 21°Cancer 49' 45".
This aspect brings up a topic that caused me to question John Wilner. Virtually everyone alive has very long term and in many cases life long aspects between the progressed and natal position of the outer planets and sometimes to the inner planets as well. Especially in declination. Of course this is dependent on using the 4' orb only. Longitude is emphasized if the native is born with a planet near a station. Thus throughout childhood many are subject to the lingering influence of the outer planets. Pluto moves out of orb(4') in longitude from a conjunction to its natal position. Due to a progressed station(April 13, 1998) it maintains its parallel aspect for his whole life. It is appearant that John McCain has had to deal with power issues most of that time. This would be true in any case because his Pluto is angular and quite near the MC. This aspect becomes exact on December 19, 2010. Its powerful influence is increasing. But should a lifelong aspect be used to verify any event? Considering this is Pluto and it is only 24" from exact I think it is valid.

4a. On Nov 4, 2008 progressed Mercury ruler 9th and 12th in the natal first is semi-square progressed Mars in the natal 12th. Again there is a tie in to the 12th house. Natal Mars is also a 10th house planet. While the orb is wide at 04'50" it is applying and also becomes exact on December 3. 2008.

To be in the running as President of the USA requires a very strong person and a very strong chart to go with that person. Interestingly enough neither candidates' chart has an interception. Between the two charts there are five(?7) applicable aspects, three of which are in declination. This should demonstrate to those of you who do not use declinations and/or do not even know what they are, that you are missing some important information that can be found in a natal chart. Usually by progression, more aspects form in declination than in longitude and they are very meaningful. While both charts show activation of the MC, which is stronger and offers more support?

Personally I like to see a direct activation of either the natal or progressed angles(preferably the MC) in either longitude or declination. Only McCain has this and while it is a minor aspect it becomes exact on election day.
For example in the 2004 U.S. Senatorial election, Obama's first federal office, he had progressed MC conta-parallel natal Venus and progressed Saturn parallel progressed MC.
And in McCain's first congressional election he had progressed MC trine natal Uranus, exact on November 5th, the day before the election.

In Obama's chart there are three applying aspects(one is wide, two never culminate) they involve the MC through rulership or placement but not the MC directly. The one seperating aspect does not involve the MC.
In McCain's chart there is one exact aspect dealing with the MC and one aspect applying to a planet in the 10th. While the other two are wide and applying.
So it looks like 3 vs. 2. Or possibly 5 vs. 2 or maybe it should be 5 vs. 4. A complex question.
Are a conjunction, conta-parallel and sextile, combined, stronger and more supportive than the combination of a an exact though minor aspect, a parallel and two minor but wide aspects? Should nodal contacts count for as much or more than the two minor aspects.
Should only applying aspects be considered? I think that aspects already formed by a specific date indicate events that have already happened, while applying aspects should show the future to an extent. The outcome of the national election is usually known by sometime after midnight PST. Only one of the aspects formed in either chart becomes exact on the Nov. 4th or 5th.

John Wilner did not use minor aspects of less than 45° or the Nodes in his analysis. The Incarn program calculates the mean node. If that standard is kept then only aspect #3 and 5 in Obama's chart should be considered, in McCain's chart only aspect #3. John did notice the minor aspects that were formed. And the more common were the 24th harmonic or multiples of 15°. Far less common are the 16th harmonic or 22.5° aspects.

There is one area where I think research is completely lacking. And that is, aspects in declination. Is it possible that angular relationships other than (contra-)parallels in declination are valid? I believe so but no information is currently available.
The planets normally fall in the range of the ecliptic, that is 23° 27', but the are many stars outside of this range. Polaris for example is at nearly 90° North.

John always placed an emphasis on the slowest moving aspects. He, like many, thought that the slower the movement the more powerful its affect. Normally the slowest planet by progression in longitude and declination is Pluto. No surprise there. But does that mean that it is has the most power? I would say yes. Also is an aspect that is closer to exact exert a more powerful influence? Since these aspects are at about 05' arc or less it might seem a moot point to say which is the strongest. But again I would say yes to the closeness factor.
By John's standards Barack Obama has two applicable aspects. I would say three. The two(three) aspects total 04' 42"(08'02") orb for an average orb of 02' 21"(02'40"), the closest being 02' 07".
John McCain has one or possibly four aspects. I would say two or possibly four. The one(four) total 00' 24"(09' 59") orb for an average of 00' 24"(02' 30"), the closest being 00'24" or exact(the pro MC/natal Saturn minor aspect).
Both have a progressed Pluto aspect. McCain's is in declination, therefore slower and also closer at 00' 24". It becomes exact on Dec. 19, 2010, while Obama's at 02'35" orb becomes exact Mar 02, 2010.

From the charts in my Tecumseh's Curse article and a couple of others, all presidents or candidates, I found some interesting "Presidental Signatures" in the natal charts.
Mercury/Mars/Pluto combinations.
Obama has: Nothing
McCain has: Mercury sextile the Mars/Pluto midpoint.
Extremes in declination.
Obama has: Nothing
McCain has: Nodal Axis
Cardinal Angles
Both have Cardianl Angles
Aquarian Signature
Obama has: Nothing
McCain has: Uranus angular. Three planets in the 11th.

Doing research for previous national elections I found that the person elected had the most transiting hard aspects, allowing a 5° orb in longitude and 1°  for declinations. I consider 9 for Obama and 17 for McCain. Now this should not be surprising because hard aspects bring action.

If only the aspects involving the natal MC, its ruler and planets in the 10th are considered this is the list.
*Because of their rate of motion the transiting Moon, ASC and MC are not included.
T = transiting
N = natal
A "+" mark denotes seperating, a "-" mark denotes applying

For Obama:
T Sun square N Neptune, in the 10th at + 94° 02' 50"
T Mercury South parallel N MC South at + 00° 09'51"

For McCain:
T Mars South parallel N Moon South, ruler natal MC, at - 00° 11'50"
T Sun square N Mars, in the 10th at + 90° 19'48"
T Mars South contra-parallel N Mars North, in the 10th at + 00° 09'47"
T Pluto quincunx N Pluto, in the 10th at + 151° 18'08"
T Jupiter South contra-parallel N Pluto North, in the 10th at + 00° 10'15"

Following your own guidelines or John Wilner's: 4' orb(John often stated that this orb was subjective on his part), parallels of declination and aspects, who would you say will be elected president.
Your choice: (Fill in the blank)


Obama PBT Chart


Obama SBT Chart


Obama 2008


McCain PBT Chart


McCain SBT Chart


McCain 2008


Obama Transits 2008


McCain Transits 2008

My Choice: This is a difficult decision to make. The uncertainty of Barack Obama's birth data means I am taking a calculated risk in assuming the chart I have for him is correct. Based on the information I have I would pick John McCain as the winner of the national election. The reasons are as follows:

The exact aspect between Saturn and the MC on the day of the election. This is a very powerful combination. Saturn, the natural ruler of the 10th aspecting the MC. This combination was also present in G.W. Bush's chart in 2000.

The Pluto parallel in declination is also in the 10th. In McCain's chart Pluto is a very pronounced influence. It is angular and near conjunct the MC.

McCain also has a much stronger Aquarian signature than Obama. This signature resonates with the American public which is represented in the U.S.A. chart by the Aquarian Moon and Sun sign rulership.

Finally McCain has far more hard transiting aspects. While I do not think that transits are personal, they do cause actions, conditions or events to which one would be subject .

What went wrong?

What went wrong with this prediction? The astrological indicators that I saw certainly supported my choice. Since McCain did not win the election there is an error somewhere. That error must be in the birth data I used. Shortly before the election a birth certificate for John McCain made the news and the astrological websites. I questioned my information source again and I was reassured that the morning birth in the U.S. Naval Hospital in Panama was correct. During the time preceding the election I had not been in the U.S. My location made it difficult to access information and it was only days until the election when I received the news about the Panama Canal Railroad hospital birth certificate and its stated time of 6:25 PM.

Now I have had time to look at the new information. But is it correct? Or is the certificate a created misdirect aimed at defusing the critics of Obama's questionable birth time and location? I do not know the answer to these questions. I suspect that some number of persons out there in the world do know the truth regarding both of the candidates birth information. The trouble is that with today's computers and image editing software it is easy to create anything. Scaned copies of "Original Documents" is an oxymoron. Just ask Dan Rather. The best I can do is use the information provided. In that case here is a new chart for John McCain based on the 6:25 PM birth data. This also reflects the slightly different location of the railroad hospital.
John McCain

DOB August 29, 1936 6:25 PM EST 

Panama Canal Railroad Hospital

Colon, Panama

09 N 21' 30"

79 W 54'

Precise location data is used for John McCain

This results in the following:

Physical Birth Time(PBT) ASC = 06 Pisces 17' [Chart] 

Spiritual Birth Time(SBT) ASC = 17 Libra 00' 51" [Chart]

What is happening in McCain's chart in the time frame of this year's election? Let's see.

There are no planets in the 10th house of the Spiritual Birth Chart. Therefore the MC and/or its ruler Venus must be activated.

The only aspect forming in McCain's chart is a progressed Mercury to natal Mars square. Neither planet involves the MC or its ruler. Therefore this chart shows no chance of a win on election day.

Interestingly the progressed chart also shows the MC ruler Venus in out of bounds southern declination. And at 3° Capricorn the progressed MC is just past its nadir of declination.

McCain PBT Colon

MCCain SBT Colon

McCain 2008 Election Colon

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This page last modified: September 5, 2008